Posts by Cold Steel

3

Eh? There are two Jesus'?

by notsurewheretogo in

lars????

i thought the messiah was black and gay?.

http://news.sky.com/story/1096687/former-it-specialist-claims-to-be-jesus-reborn.

Cold Steel

Well that's ridiculous. Everyone knows Jesus is now teaching in Siberia! That's why you have to be careful about false christs.

You think he's in Australia, when he's really in Siberia!

The Siberian Jesus

The Australian Jesus

73

Why won't JWs have "civilized" debates with home owners?

by ilikecheese in

it seems kind of crazy to go to someone's house touting your religion as truth and then not even defend your own beliefs.

why do jws stop the chat if someone just tries to calmly reason/debate with them?

i'm not talking about crazy preachers who start slamming bibles and yelling about how they need jesus or something.

Cold Steel

I was...disappointed with the so-called "Bible Study" I received. It usually went like this:

"Okay, if you'll read to us the first paragraph under the heading, 'Where Are the Dead?'...."

Sigh. I read it out loud. "Many people believe that when they die, their spirits will depart their bodies to go to Heaven or Hell. But the Bible clearly teaches that such beliefs are wrong."

I then pause, then say, "Uhhh...I think...."

"So what does the Bible clearly say about such beliefs?"

"Well, I don't think they go to Heaven or Hell, but I believe they go to either a temporary place of rest to await the resurrection, or to a remedial place of torment...."

"...Yeah, that's interesting. But what does the Bible clearly say about such beliefs?"

"Ummm...that they're wrong?"

"Yes, now if you'll read the next two paragraphs."

That's a Bible Study???

73

Why won't JWs have "civilized" debates with home owners?

by ilikecheese in

it seems kind of crazy to go to someone's house touting your religion as truth and then not even defend your own beliefs.

why do jws stop the chat if someone just tries to calmly reason/debate with them?

i'm not talking about crazy preachers who start slamming bibles and yelling about how they need jesus or something.

Cold Steel

Retention being what it is, the Society risks losing its missionaries by people who know the scriptures.

Back in the 70s and early 80s, many JWs knew their stuff and were fairly interesting to talk with. That's all changed. Now if they can't answer questions, they bring elders and then they shut up and let the elders pontificate.

The Watchtower now is the main canon of the Society. Studying the Bible too carefully without proper supervision and guidance can result in people leaving the faith. That's why active JWs are forbidden to read the tracts and literature of other religions. It's easier to retain people if the Society controls the things they read and watch, the people they associate with and the limits of education they receive. Rebellion can be nipped in the bud by turning one's family against a recalcitrant member and threatening him with extermination by his God. They do this because it works. Scientologists and other groups do the same thing.

27

Believers and Non-Believers - What does this scripture mean?

by cantleave in

genesis 30:37-39english standard version (esv).

37 then jacob took fresh sticks of poplar and almond and plane trees, and peeled white streaks in them, exposing the white of the sticks.

38 he set the sticks that he had peeled in front of the flocks in the troughs, that is, the watering places, where the flocks came to drink.

Cold Steel

People, even prophets, are products of their environments. Today's Christians who believe that every word of the Bible came directly from God Himself. But there's the matter of superstition. God hasn't revealed everything to His prophets. They aren't all seeing, all knowing. Paul made more than a few comments that were his own personal opinion. I see no problem that prophets can believe in superstitious beliefs.

I'm finding it quite difficult to believe that genetic makeup can be altered just by viewing some sticks.

If you want to go that route, how about the people bitten by the "fiery serpents" in the desert? Moses was commanded to erect a brazen serpent which, when viewed, would heal those who looked upon it. It was later seen as a type and shadow of Christ, and that whoso would believe on Him would be saved.

46

missing the JWD glory days

by fresh prince of ohio in

don't get me wrong, this forum currently has plenty of interesting discussions and posters, but, for those of you who weren't on the old jwd board in the early-to-mid-00s, man...i'm sorry but you really missed out on the glory years of this forum.

it was really a special, unique place then.

again, not dissing the current, but, that huge exciting wave of ex-jw internet activity that occurred in the early part of this century seems to have leveled off.

Cold Steel

The worst part of this board is that when one's browser crashes, messages being written are lost. This means if you really can't afford to lose something, you have to write it on an editor and paste it. There's also no spell check and no personal message inidcator. The software is buggier than a Boy Scout camping bag and the reply function is completely featureless. With all the free forum software, this is one of the worst. Still, it would take a lot of work to integrate the messages into a new software package.

Did I mention there's no spelling check?

7

Frederick Zydek's book on Charles Taze Russell - some extracts

by JWB in

frederick zydek's book on charles taze russell - some extracts.

these extracts are from the book:.

charles taze russell - his life and times - the man, the millenium and the message.

Cold Steel

So what is the position of the WT Society today regarding the return of Judah to its ancestral homeland? I had understood that the modern leaders have denied it, preferring to brand the WT Society as "spiritual Israel."

I've read many articles about Armageddon, a Jerusalem-centric battle to occur before the return of Christ (see Zechariah 12-14; Ezekiel 38-39; Revelation 11). It had nothing to do with the entire world, only the city of Jerusalem and the Gentile force from the north. I've asked numerous JWs about the particulars of Armageddon, and so far not one of them among the rank and file have any idea that it's a localized battle in which the Jewish Messiah saves Jerusalem just as it faces utter destruction. Jesus returns as he ascended (on the Mount of Olives), only this time he appears with ten thousands of his saints. The Jews see the marks in his hands and ask about them and Jehovah replies, "These are the wounds I received in the house of my friends." The Jews then realize the horrible truth that their fathers killed their own Messiah and they convert in a day. Then lamentation seizes the city, not only for their dead, but because they now know the identity of their "Anointed One."

Most Christian futurists believe this, but preterists don't. But preterists at least know the list of events as stated above. JWs, though, are clueless. I have an entire Watchtower on Armageddon, and there is so similarity whatsoever to scripture. It's like they're in a dream world.

19

How can a "God, who Cannot Lie" (Titus 1:2) justify DESTRUCTION?

by fedup in

i was raised as a jw, most of my family is still in, i regular pioneered for 5 years, elder for even longer.

preached for over 40 years that the 1914 generation will see the end, etc, etc... believed every single word, and preached it with total conviction.. i have not been active for approx 7 years, completely faded now, mainly because i couldn't believe a loving god would destroy me, after coming to terms with and admiting i was preaching a lie.. i'm extremely happy i'm out, although still hitched to it somehow by my past, i guess like many of us on here.. i do have a question for all jws.. how can "god, who cannot lie" a god which is love, justify destroying the world, including all of us that left, and saving only the jws, when for decades one of the main teachings of the jws has proved to be a lie?

a teaching no one wants to discuss anymore, which got covered up by a new light, which most can't even explain.

Cold Steel

“I don’t believe God would kill me for believing the truth”

You're right. Further, he will not condemn you for believing falsehood if that falsehood is grounded in good faith. Those who believe that one comes under condemnation because they don't belong to the right religion need to rethink their own beliefs. If one honestly doesn't believe there is a God, would a just God condemn him or her for it?

I wouldn't give spit for such a God. And even if a person believes in a God but isn't interested in being religious or dedicating his life to God, I still don't believe such a person would be blasted into hell or out of existence.

People are different, and if we are the children of God, I believe He would do everything He could for us. He won't take away our free agency or be vindictive. On the other hand, when we receive certain knowledge, we quite frequently change our views. The scriptures state that eventually every knee will bend and every tongue confess Christ, and I believe that. He's not going to then blast part of them into eternity.

6

How religions change their mind By William Kremer BBC World Service

by free @ last in

interesting article.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22250412.

i don't know why we sometimes have trouble expecting there will be 'nu lite', apparently all religions have been getting it since the start of time.

Cold Steel

Even Mormons with their completely fictional history of the Americas and their magic underpants are taken more seriously than JWs.

That's because other religious scholars take us seriously. We also have some fine people working in a number of fields who have put forth many credible theories and have defended our views. The Jehovah's Witnesses discourage higher education where the Mormons encourage it. We're actually making a great deal of progress defending our "completely fictional history" of the Americas. We also have some excellent professors of ancient scripture and history that have been recognized by scholars in other religions. Jesuit scholar George McRae and Methodist scholar Margaret Barker are just two.

35

The JWs slipped up again with the same Alpha and Omega error from 1978

by booker-t in

the saying people will make the same mistake over and over again is so true.

in the "revelation grand climax at hand" the revised one 2006 the wt again makes the same error and attributes the words at rev 22:12 to jehovah on pgs 306 and to jesus on the last page 319. you would think they would have learned their lesson from the 1978 wt blunder.

they almost use the same wording discussing the suddeness of jesus coming and jesus encourages his followers of his sudden coming and they list 5 scriptures and say jesus spoke them and one of the verses is (rev 22:12).

Cold Steel

Well, Lucifer means "son of the morning" or "morning star" (terms used for Venus). It has no reference to being a false sun except by association to the planet Venus by other cultures. Revelation isn't about astrology, for no one has been able to predict anything in the book using astrology signs or readings. It does use numerology, which was common in apocalyptic books like Daniel, and many of its prophecies have already taken place; and the rest appear to have excellent chances of being fulfilled.

35

The JWs slipped up again with the same Alpha and Omega error from 1978

by booker-t in

the saying people will make the same mistake over and over again is so true.

in the "revelation grand climax at hand" the revised one 2006 the wt again makes the same error and attributes the words at rev 22:12 to jehovah on pgs 306 and to jesus on the last page 319. you would think they would have learned their lesson from the 1978 wt blunder.

they almost use the same wording discussing the suddeness of jesus coming and jesus encourages his followers of his sudden coming and they list 5 scriptures and say jesus spoke them and one of the verses is (rev 22:12).

Cold Steel

One of the reasons they confuse the two is because Jehovah is the premortal Jesus. That's why their titles are the same. Both are King of Kings, Lord of Lords; both are the beginning and the end. Psalms 96:10 tells us that Jehovah "will judge the peoples with equity," whilst John tells us that the Father judges no man, but has committed all judgment to the Son (John 5:22). The confusion springs from the fact that when man fell, he no longer had the access to the Father, who previously "walked and talked" with Adam and his posterity. Now man needed a mediator, a go-between, and the Father's eldest Son was chosen.

So Elohim chose his eldest Son, Jehovah, and proclaimed him the Savior and Redeemer of the World. Knowing from the beginning that man would fall, he ordained his Son and sent him into the world to be lifted up by the wicked and slain. After the world is glorified and redeemed, at the end of the Millennium, he will present the world back to his Father, perfected.